How the mighty have fallen
It's been nearly a week now since 15 members of our armed forces were detained at gunpoint by the Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guard Navy. This is the second incident where Iranians have captured military personnel. In the first case in 2004, the 8 men were released fairly quickly as Her Majesty's government didn't really dispute the Iranian claims.
This incident happens at a time when relations with Iran are strained and the release of the 14 men & 1 woman doesn't look imminent.
Frankly this incident raises lots of issues over and above the obvious one of the location of the personnel.
Firstly, why did the Iranians do this? Well a number of reasons arise, retaliation over capture of Iranians in Iraq, attempts to diffuse the UN sanctions vote, bargaining chips over Irans nuclear ambitions, who's to say, but the Iranian claim that they did it because the personnel were over the border is a red herring.
Secondly, how was this allowed to happen? This raises lots of questions leading from the tactical situation right up to policy decisions made within the MOD and government. Why was HMS Cornwall too far away from the scene, allegedly because its draft is such that it could not enter the shallow waters although the ship being inspected wasn't exactly a dhow.
Even if HMS Cornwall couldn't provide close escort, surely the helicopter should have stayed around until the RIBs were en route back?
Without this close support it is no surprise the personnel surrendered as they would have been outgunned.
The Lynx wouldn't have been able to do much once the capture had been effected but it could have prevented the capture in the first place had it still been overhead.
For the Iranians to have pulled this off they must have been waiting close by and indeed to have pre-planned the 'attack', which means it wasn't an apprehension for voliation of its waters.
On a more stategic level, why do we not have more ships in the area given the situation in the ME at the moment. HMS Cornwall and some minesweepers do not a Navy make, the government has steadily reduced the capability of our armed forces at such a time when we need to be expanding our forces to cope with all our commitments. We cannot even adequately perform in our current theatres, with our troops being nicknamed 'The Borrowers' and 'The Flintstones' due to our continued reliance on the US for equipment, air support and our lack of modern/correct kit.
The MOD seems to be trying to equip itself for a war we might have to fight at the cost of providing correct kit for wars we are actually fighting. I hear that in July this year our
Royal Navy will be smaller than the French fleet for the first time in 400 years, what is going on? I also believe that we are to send the Ark Royal out to the gulf, but without any aircraft because the F-22 isn't in service yet and all the Sea Harriers are either de-commissioned or in Afghanistan.
Mr Blair seems to trying to talk the talk without paying for the ability to walk the walk. If we are going to follow the lead of the US and be a major player in the 'War on Terror' we should at least try and fulfil our promises, which means adequately supporting the forces with kit they need for the task and proper mandates to do the task.
Which brings us on the the Rules of Engagement, why are the RoE set to be de-escalatory? Surely if a country tries to abduct or troops in areas they are legitimatley allowed to be in, we should be able to at lest fire warning shots and act in self defence? The aren't enough details of the current situation yet to comment fully but there should have been some level of support to threaten the Iranians with to at least make them think twice about proceeding. And why did the captain of HMS Cornwall have to refer to 'head office'? There must have been plans in place for this eventuality without having to phone up for guidance, what a way to conduct operations, is the nanny state this bad that the Navy need to ask permission to act?
Thirdly, what are the government playing at? It's now been a week and we haven't even threatened the Iranians with anything other than harsh words if they don't return our personnel. Some idiots have been calling for nukes but there are a raft of measures varying in lethality that could be employed.
Financial pressures, trade and economic contracts could curtailed, detaining consular staff, explusion of diplomats, build up forces in the area, capture of Iranian oil facilities and then all the way up to targetted bombing of military installations and special forces operations if they do not comply. Instead all we get are much hand wringing and 'polite but firm' and 'measured' overtures. This gets nowhere with dictatorships such as Iran, they already know how we are going to respond which is why they targeted British forces not US.
We are steadily getting backed into a position whereby we will have to either cave-in or take some level of military action. Our reputation as a nation and our self respect amongst our NATO allies is taking a pasting. By all means over diplomatic solutions but we must back them up with some level of threat.
Finally, for now, the propaganda footage of the personnel is causing yet more 'outrage' amongst our politicians but no actual action. People are decrying the comments of LS Faye Turney as being not becoming of a soldier, of not resisting coercion and being effectivley traitorous. People should bear in mind that we aren't in a shooting war and that these personnel haven't been trained in anti-interrogation techniques. The standing order is for the detainees to do whatever the Iranians want. It serves nothing to resist and would just make their capture harder to bear.
To be frank the images of LS Turney wearing a head scarf was far less irritating than seeing a BBC reporter in Iran having to wear one when recording a report for the news. That says it all really, they can make us do anything they want and haven't the balls to stand up for ourselves anymore. Why the hell should we keep kow-towing to these draconian religious laws when they don't even follw the rules of our culture? They know that the Wests resolve to be 'multi-cultural' and to not offend anyone is erroding our will to fight. Whilst there is no obvious 'battlefield', make no mistake, there is a 'war' and we are losing. Until our leaders wake up to this fact we will see continued 'stunts' like this one occuring with more and more frequency.
For continued updates please follow the action here
This incident happens at a time when relations with Iran are strained and the release of the 14 men & 1 woman doesn't look imminent.
Frankly this incident raises lots of issues over and above the obvious one of the location of the personnel.
Firstly, why did the Iranians do this? Well a number of reasons arise, retaliation over capture of Iranians in Iraq, attempts to diffuse the UN sanctions vote, bargaining chips over Irans nuclear ambitions, who's to say, but the Iranian claim that they did it because the personnel were over the border is a red herring.
Secondly, how was this allowed to happen? This raises lots of questions leading from the tactical situation right up to policy decisions made within the MOD and government. Why was HMS Cornwall too far away from the scene, allegedly because its draft is such that it could not enter the shallow waters although the ship being inspected wasn't exactly a dhow.
Even if HMS Cornwall couldn't provide close escort, surely the helicopter should have stayed around until the RIBs were en route back?
Without this close support it is no surprise the personnel surrendered as they would have been outgunned.
The Lynx wouldn't have been able to do much once the capture had been effected but it could have prevented the capture in the first place had it still been overhead.
For the Iranians to have pulled this off they must have been waiting close by and indeed to have pre-planned the 'attack', which means it wasn't an apprehension for voliation of its waters.
On a more stategic level, why do we not have more ships in the area given the situation in the ME at the moment. HMS Cornwall and some minesweepers do not a Navy make, the government has steadily reduced the capability of our armed forces at such a time when we need to be expanding our forces to cope with all our commitments. We cannot even adequately perform in our current theatres, with our troops being nicknamed 'The Borrowers' and 'The Flintstones' due to our continued reliance on the US for equipment, air support and our lack of modern/correct kit.
The MOD seems to be trying to equip itself for a war we might have to fight at the cost of providing correct kit for wars we are actually fighting. I hear that in July this year our
Royal Navy will be smaller than the French fleet for the first time in 400 years, what is going on? I also believe that we are to send the Ark Royal out to the gulf, but without any aircraft because the F-22 isn't in service yet and all the Sea Harriers are either de-commissioned or in Afghanistan.
Mr Blair seems to trying to talk the talk without paying for the ability to walk the walk. If we are going to follow the lead of the US and be a major player in the 'War on Terror' we should at least try and fulfil our promises, which means adequately supporting the forces with kit they need for the task and proper mandates to do the task.
Which brings us on the the Rules of Engagement, why are the RoE set to be de-escalatory? Surely if a country tries to abduct or troops in areas they are legitimatley allowed to be in, we should be able to at lest fire warning shots and act in self defence? The aren't enough details of the current situation yet to comment fully but there should have been some level of support to threaten the Iranians with to at least make them think twice about proceeding. And why did the captain of HMS Cornwall have to refer to 'head office'? There must have been plans in place for this eventuality without having to phone up for guidance, what a way to conduct operations, is the nanny state this bad that the Navy need to ask permission to act?
Thirdly, what are the government playing at? It's now been a week and we haven't even threatened the Iranians with anything other than harsh words if they don't return our personnel. Some idiots have been calling for nukes but there are a raft of measures varying in lethality that could be employed.
Financial pressures, trade and economic contracts could curtailed, detaining consular staff, explusion of diplomats, build up forces in the area, capture of Iranian oil facilities and then all the way up to targetted bombing of military installations and special forces operations if they do not comply. Instead all we get are much hand wringing and 'polite but firm' and 'measured' overtures. This gets nowhere with dictatorships such as Iran, they already know how we are going to respond which is why they targeted British forces not US.
We are steadily getting backed into a position whereby we will have to either cave-in or take some level of military action. Our reputation as a nation and our self respect amongst our NATO allies is taking a pasting. By all means over diplomatic solutions but we must back them up with some level of threat.
Finally, for now, the propaganda footage of the personnel is causing yet more 'outrage' amongst our politicians but no actual action. People are decrying the comments of LS Faye Turney as being not becoming of a soldier, of not resisting coercion and being effectivley traitorous. People should bear in mind that we aren't in a shooting war and that these personnel haven't been trained in anti-interrogation techniques. The standing order is for the detainees to do whatever the Iranians want. It serves nothing to resist and would just make their capture harder to bear.
To be frank the images of LS Turney wearing a head scarf was far less irritating than seeing a BBC reporter in Iran having to wear one when recording a report for the news. That says it all really, they can make us do anything they want and haven't the balls to stand up for ourselves anymore. Why the hell should we keep kow-towing to these draconian religious laws when they don't even follw the rules of our culture? They know that the Wests resolve to be 'multi-cultural' and to not offend anyone is erroding our will to fight. Whilst there is no obvious 'battlefield', make no mistake, there is a 'war' and we are losing. Until our leaders wake up to this fact we will see continued 'stunts' like this one occuring with more and more frequency.
For continued updates please follow the action here
posted by McNam at 15:20
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